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Jen said…
My friend is also well aware that she sounds like a Marxist when she talks about for-profit healthcare, and that's one more thing that causes internal conflict in her.

My friend stays conflicted. She needs some perspective.
She needs to go camping.
Thersites said…
Sounds like your friend should definitely go camping.

It's a place outside the frame of any "capitalist discourse", and unaffected by it.
Thersites said…
That discourse seems to set and define the "limits of the possible"... and yet the imagination is capable of wandering FAR beyond those "limits"... provided you acknowledge the framework whilst imagining, and choose to move beyond it and don't remain "inter-passively controlled".

It's funny how the "psychic/ libidinal energy" associated with memory and a trauma can become trapped, attracting conscious/subconscious attention over-and-over in repeated/ repetitive cycles... until something is later able to quantitatively divide, and re-distribute and "move it" to multiple other memory locations.

Like a foot-fetish trapping libidinal memory.

What was it my parents were doing in their bedroom when I was four and walked in... hurting each other? Not knowing the cause, the thought repeats, and repeats, until I'm now 12 and my friend Joey tells me about sex... and yet I still see mommy's feet sticking out from under the sheets. :(

But then again, it's hard to know for sure...
Thersites said…
Redistribution of libidinal energy usually takes place as part of the "dream-work" long-term memory storage process, when short-term memories get transferred to long-term storage sites (during REM sleep cycles), more significant events getting more psychic/ libidinal energy attached to them (trapped) and allowing for neural pathway myelination (from repeated revisiting use).

Or something like that, anyways. I'm not an "expert".
Thersites said…
Trapped psychic/ libidinal energy... like an "itch" that you can get "near" but never directly "scratch" and "bleed off" the source of the itch. Until one day, a new neuron gets attached... from a nearby and likely "well exercised" memory.
I hope that your friend finds some peace of mind. She's fought the good fight and has proven herself a formidable patient advocate. G_d Bless her!
Jen said…
I think everything you've said here is on target... Though I've never heard of deeply ingrained neutral pathways"jumping the tracks" to a more established path/memory. That's interesting.

And thanks FJ... Thank you for patiently listening to me repeat the same stuff. Thing is, I someone's feel like I'm stuck in this cast, created by trauma. This defined identity. I keep thinking that talking about it, Exploring it, will let me break away from it. But I think I'm going about it wrong. I'm assuming there's a lock on the door and I don't have a key... But there's actually not a door there at all.
Jen said…
There's no lock, no door, no wall defining me.


Anyway, thank you also for the patient advocate comment. I've always felt the need to fight for the underdog. There's a childhood connection that gets repeated on high volume.
Anyways, no problem...that's what I'm here for. Support, should you ever need any. :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abjection
You're right, there probably is no lock/key/door, but there may be something that was "abjected" into a room nearby, and it's probably "symbolized" in the recurring parts of your thoughts (having been transformed in the dream-state memory transfer).
3. Again, these stories don't seem to terrible to me... but I suspect that they're proxies for something much more disturbing. I haven't decoded the symbolism yet, but remain hopeful that one day I'll say something stupid, he'll connect it to the underlying traumatic event, and perhaps alleviate some of his symptoms (like the lazy-leg).
4. The "key" (if there is one) to me seems to lie in how the Freudian dream-work symbolism embedded the events into long-term memory the night after they occurred.
2a. I have a friend of many years who suffers from PTSD and is on full disability from it, and agent orange exposure (he also gets "lazy-leg" when he sleeps). He served in the USAF on a base in Thailand during the Vietnam War, intercepting and decoding Viet Cong radio signals with a unit that was attached to NSA. He often tells me stories of his experiences, especially if we're with a group of other veterans from Perry Point VA hospital that he teaches martial arts to.
2b. There are a few stories that I've heard him tell, over and over, but to me, they don't seem all that terrible and I cannot understand his fixation on them. One is of an extremely long boa constrictor that had been crossing a dirt road between two rice paddies and had one end in one paddy, and the other end in another. He ran over it with his jeep.
Jen said…
I hear you.
But I haven't any physical manifestations to speak of.

Mine is just a fish on a line that pulls and tugs harder when a bigger fish eats him. (New "traumatic event" triggers old trains response.) I just wish I could reset my nervous system to respond to life appropriately instead of in a heightened state of arousal.

I.e. if I have been fighting with insurance on a patients behalf all day and an feeling "keyed up", a slammed door or someone sneaking up on me can elicit a scream out of fear. How ridiculous and exhausting...
Jen said…
*triggers old trauma response
Jen said…
Maybe I should write out the story of the day she died.
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No vassopressin or dopamine hits.... all work, no reward.
Jen said…
I think that some of my addictive behaviors (2008-9) ahem.... Were me chasing after dopamine. Pretty certain of that, actually.
No doubt. My "internet addiction" is another. :(
Not enough "reward" at work. So I "escape" to the internet.
Jen said…
And then I'm on my damn phone so much that I try to escape that!

Don't you ever think that this societal system we've bought into might not be the best?
I blame the WWII wage caps that made medical care an "insurance" benefit.
PTSD near the end... since in cerebellum - related to muscle memory and "lazy leg".
nicrap said…
One question, guys. Chekhov, Dostoevskey, Tolostoy and Gogol, in order of preference?
Jen said…
FJ, the cerebellum is primary in controlling balance and proprioception. I often see patients who have dysfunctional balance, and their balance is typically much worse when they are experiencing strong negative emotions/fear. Strong muscle memory (of traumatic events) when triggered, can even trigger symptoms of vertigo. Very interesting!
Jen said…
Do you know what traumatic event happened to the guy in the video? Several comments referred to his PTSD...
Jen said…
((Nikhil!!))
Dostoevsky, Chekhov, Tolstoy. I've not read Gogol.

Wanna know why?
Dostoevsky is passionate and emotional, relatable.

Chekhov feels calmer and more observant.

Tolstoy feels more like a moral sermon.


nicrap said…
Another question. Barring the classics which audiobook you have enjoyed the most so far, in literature?
Jen said…
Hamnet by Maggie O'Connell
Jen said…
And all Sherlock Holmes stories. 😊
Chekhov, Dostoevskey, Tolostoy and Gogol...

Okay, I need to exclude Chekov only because I haven't read very much...

so... Gogol, Dostoevskey and then Tolstoy... and Gogol only for his sense of humour/ fun/ surrealism. I also would put Solzhenistin ahead of Tolstoy.

As for audiobooks, I've only listened to one, and it was on a long car trip about Hannibal, the Carthaginian.
"Do you know what traumatic event happened to the guy in the video? "

from his YouTube Channel (he does lots of Space and Science videos)....

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...and as long as we're all asking questions, what do you both think of the theories of the philosopher Byung Chul Han? Me, I think he's onto something.... the missing element in the objet petit 'a... and the surplus between "being in love" and "falling" or haven "fallen" in love. The answer to the che vuoi question that comes back to the latter, but not former "lover".
Thersites said…
Meanwhile, back in the days of newly forming memories...
nicrap said…
so... Gogol, Dostoevskey and then Tolstoy... and Gogol only for his sense of humour/ fun/ surrealism. I also would put Solzhenistin ahead of Tolstoy.

After my own heart! Only i don't recall having read Solzhenstein ever. Gogol i like for his madness as a writer.

Well, i am not familiar with the works of Byung Chul Han, but i have in real life met such narcissistic persons as the video describes, incapable of giving themselves over to others and receiving the "gift" of love in return.
No, Solzhenistin isn't to everyone's taste. He's far too serious and condemnatory of the former Soviet State... but I, as an anti-communist, I found it refreshing, as most had naught bur praises for any ideology on the Left. I was a supporter of the American policy of containment, and therefore a proponent of the Vietnam policy, a policy much despised by many of my own countrymen. So in Solzhenistin I found vindication. The lens of "critical theory" had finally been turned upon the very proponents of critical theory itself, and in a highly successful way. It may have led to little introspection by people on the American Left, but at least I finally had the material to hold up and reveal their own reflections to them with.

Byung-Chul Han is, IMO, a more "right wing" Zizek. Having spent time in South Korea myself, I think he's captured something that many Westerners would be loath to admit, that we're as complicit in and responsible for our own psychic predicament than we'd care to admit. That we're all seeking the praise of achievement, and not reacting to capitalism as have some in the East, with tang ping (lying flat).
The difference being that in the East, the permissive father has not yet emerged. South Korea was an extremely authoritarian nation, at least in the mid-70's when I visited there. Their military had a discipline I had not seen anywhere else in the world at the time. You could roll up on a Korean guard and never see him relax, they remained stiff and formal at ALL times.
The "capitalist discourse" as the vanishing mediator has disrupted and diverted the "master discourse". There are three types of human relationship types: Dominance, Communality, Reciprocity... and the capitalist discourse concentrates on the latter two... trying to turn your "boss" in a dominance relationship into your "friend" of a communality relationship (ie - socialism). Even citizens no longer possess the "sovereignty" over their own persons (bodies) and minds, hence, their loss of "purpose" and the ever increasing pressure of oneself on oneself to "achieve"...
Again, the sovereignty of the self and 'other' is being called into question, and with postmodernism, the ability to maintain social distance has eroded significantly.
Jen said…
FJ, I watched the video regarding Byug Chul Han, and he seems reasonable to me. He certainly resonates more than Zizek, at least.

Honestly, the social changes are happening so fast that I don't stand a chance of keeping up.

been thinking a lot about getting a flip phone again and just logging off to try to quiet the noise.

y'all know I keep telling you to read/listen to Maggie O'Farrell. Her book ' I am, I am, I am' is a memoir of her life, and her multiple brushes with death. it was eye opening to look back over my life at the moments that I **might have** scooted past the grim reaper. It's pretty remarkable when you stop and think about how fragile we really are...and yet so many of us live well into adulthood.

anyway. just rambling.
nicrap said…
Thanks for your notes on Han, FJ. Though you it seems to me that you must be drawing on more than one source, is it not? Zizek for one.
"been thinking a lot about getting a flip phone again and just logging off to try to quiet the noise."

Whereas you probably need it for work, I don't have a cell phone. I like being "unreachable". It does drive family members crazy, but my wife has one and is always "reachable"... so I can get away with it. Besides, we still have the house and office hard lines.

And I only knew of Maggie o"Farrell from Hamnet. I didn't realize she had other books out.
Zizek for one... Han is my new favorite, though. Zizek has the slogan, "I would prefer not to" from Bartleby... but I think he missed the whole "Achievement Society" angle that Han has caught onto. Antigone/Bartleby were rare cases, even in their day... yet to select them for your "model" for limits to government (ala Stalinism), in light of this propensity towards achievement, is problematic, to say the least.

The same holds true for George Soros' "Open Society"... for there are unforeseen [by me] (until now) problems with openness and transparency as well.

He's (Han) definitely uncovered a rich garden for new thoughts... at least for me.
nicrap said…
Happy Thanksgiving, FJ! Happy Thanksgiving,Jen!
Jen said…
Happy Thanksgiving My friends!! Xoxo

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